DIY W Rails
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From reddit (Linky)
TFL have successfully patented their WRail design, can't say I expected that so I wonder if there was a concern that other companies or even FM were planning to make and build their own?Anyway here it is on Google Patents with a few notable drawings from it.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US11325021B1/
@MacIak @biell In the patent (towards the end) are approximate dimensions and angles so that should answer our earlier questions :)
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@lia Funny, they were granted a patent this month for a product they stopped selling months ago. I wonder if the are going to patent varirails now, I can only assume they plan to. Then, maybe I can look up the specs on the FAF rails.
The tilt is 5° on WTF rails.
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@biell AFAIK was 3 degrees. They were talking in the tech rails group in facebook
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@ed_co So it is a bit confusing reading the patent. They clearly state that the footpad section is 3.7° relative to the center section in some parts, but then discuss a net 5° tilt throughout the rest of the narrative. So, if I understand what I am reading (which I may not), then the specific locations of the pivot points come into play, and the net board down-angle is, in fact, 5° when a normal board is registering as level while engaged (in e.g. Mission), but at rest.
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@biell said in DIY W Rails:
@ed_co So it is a bit confusing reading the patent. They clearly state that the footpad section is 3.7° relative to the center section in some parts, but then discuss a net 5° tilt throughout the rest of the narrative. So, if I understand what I am reading (which I may not), then the specific locations of the pivot points come into play, and the net board down-angle is, in fact, 5° when a normal board is registering as level while engaged (in e.g. Mission), but at rest.
Maybe is easy to solve:
@MacIak could you please let us know what is the exact angle of the controller box (without any tilting method) in your WTF rails? Thanks -
@ed_co I got a confirmation from Fungineers that the new rails for the SF motor is will be compatible with XR .
Looks like WTF rails. Not a rendering anymore, but a preproduction sample. Seems like you can assemble a XR clone with a Lfocer v3 and without a need for a controller tilt kit. All from offshore parts.
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Is it me? Or do those rails not look like they're angled up? Although in doing so might put them at risk of violating TFL's patent.... It'd be the shaping at least that's the point of contention, but the multiple holes to change axle height could be enough difference...
While, I'm all for things like this, and IP protection, it's a slippery slope that I think can lead to stagnation in time; once there's enough saturation, as you won't be able to do something without stepping on someone's toes.
"... We've been trying to reach you about abandoning the OW as a platform, and convert to EUCs."
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@samuraipunch Probably an infringement, but offshore, so who knows.
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So, @surfdado has a text message from Jeff stating the exact angle is 3.5° that he just posted to the Funwheel discord. Also, the Funwheel people stated the Thunder Rails have the same angle.
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@Samuraipunch said :
... Although in doing so might put them at risk of violating TFL's patent.... It'd be the shaping at least that's the point of contention, but the multiple holes to change axle height could be enough difference...
@biell said :
... Also, the Funwheel people stated the Thunder Rails have the same angle.
... probably as well the WBeams. Close to ~3° (+/-0.5°)
Many alternatives (with little nuances) despite TFL's patent. Demand determines the market and the price. -
@maciak So, essentially I will be doing something very similar to what you suggested here back in May.
First of all, I ordered the recent rerelease of WTF rails. So, that turned my problem from 1.77° nose high to 1.73° nose low. So, I went from Custom nose -1 to Custom nose +1.
I bought new aluminum spacers and will be replacing the middle one and the two font (furthest from the connectors) spacers, going up 1/32" with each step. By my calculations, this will be about 1.54°, leaving me 0.19° nose low. With that, I should be able to ride Mission. And, if not, I have been riding on Custom for a while now, this will just be one more iteration of that; I assume it would be Custom +0.1 or +0.2.
Edit: I almost forgot, I also ordered silicone heat transfer pads to make up for the added space between the integrated circuits and the pads, to ensure they don't fry.
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I run my WTF's at +3 and scrape the nose constantly. It's almost annoying but keeps me on my toes lol. For you running less than 3 degrees, are you mostly on flat ground?
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@biell Sorry have not been here often lately, life got demanding;)
Tbh nose-low is a pretty good thing on wtf's. I cannot imagine using a tiltkit on them since i ride pushback+ all the time and having my board back on straight rails temporarily last week literally killed my legs on my commute fighting PB. After work i had to swap around rails from 3 boards to get WTF's back on it.
Downside of riding PB is there is no 2nd PB to prevent you from eating it. This is a big issue cause i ride vesc mostly (27-30mph) and when going back to Wtf XR sometimes im constantly on the edge of nosediving.Edit: on a recent reddit post someone had an img of a 4212XR. Looks like the capacitors are different compared to pre 4209? Installing a tiltkit could be better on those..
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@maciak I would leave things as is if I were mostly street, you are right that it feels nice to have limited pushback. I ride trails with a lot of elevation change, and need clearance at slow speeds. When you are going up a long technical section, you will slow down and there isn't much to do to counter that. With my messed up board and nose +1 things are pretty good, but I do have a few places I am scraping the nose more than I would want. And, I have come off the board a bunch of times after bottoming out on the nose.
I received the last thing I need for my modification yesterday, so I plan on doing the change tomorrow. The last thing I got was a set of fresh silicone heat sinks (from TFL). I wanted fresh ones, without pre-existing indentations, so I can visually tell if I am getting good contact on all chips.
The goal is to get back to Mission. Wish me luck.
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@biell I understand. It sucks to make compromises sometimes. I got fed up with that hence mostly ride vesc now. Except when wet/rain, then i grab the over-badgered XR. But also working on getting the vesc winterproof which possibly will make FM totally obsolete.
Just make sure you keep an eye on that capacitor closest to the handle. Also make some testrides now and monitor/screenshot the controller temperatures.
After the mod make the same rides again under similar circumstances and compare the temperatures to see if there's significant (5+ degC) difference. Thicker thermal pads reduce transfer dramatically. I wish you all the luck and hope this will make your board ride amazing again!
