XR Error 16 (repaired)
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@swinefeaster Fair point, forgot you swapped the chip previously.
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@lia i'm gonna keep the chip in and just try swapping the battery back to stock.
jw said:
"The JW Batteries FFM Chip wont do anything if you replace the JWXR battery with the Stock battery while the chip is still installed. But go ahead and put the stock battery in with the Chip still installed and test it again to see if that issue is still happening and get back to us.
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The Chip should not be functioning if an extended battery is not detected. It will still have power going through it, but it shouldn't interfere with the normal operation of a stock battery." -
@Lia um i found the issue. any tips how to repair it? the xr battery has some extra glue around the wires i guess to prevent this from happening. the jw one does not.
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@swinefeaster HOLY F....
Good catch, that's not good, very not good!I mean good that we know what the issue is but that could have gone real bad real quick. My external pack did this once on a test run. Just by luck I caught it as it was happening when showing an acquaintance my unwrapped pack mid ride.
You can either repin them if you have the right crimp terminals for the connector or do the easier but usually frowned upon method of taking the loose crimps out, sliding the wires back in then carefully dab a tiny bit of solder on to make the joint. Careful not to let solder flow into the head of the terminal else it'll never let the male pin inside.
May be worth poking JW first, not sure what their CS is like but at best you could get an exchange or they send 2+ fresh crimps. You shouldn't be able to yank those out without giving it some effort let alone have them come out under normal operation.
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@lia also, looking at some installation pics from Oct, looks like those two wires were already a bit loose to begin with
all this is live, so it's a bitch to work on! i touched those two together really briefly and it sparked pretty bad 8:
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@swinefeaster Oh yeah they'll spark real good. It's shorting however many cells between the wires when they touch 💀
While not being worked on I'd put some electrical tape over the exposed wire so they're not tempted to slowly relax over time and touch something else.
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@lia of course i did that actually out of paranoia. i am gonna ride stock and see what jw says. i have no idea on how to fix these.
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@swinefeaster Fingers crossed JW have a workable solution.
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@lia so i've been rocking the stock battery the past month (with ffm chip that jw assured me was a no-op with a stock battery) and i came to really trust it again. no issues. well, except a tiny error 16 a couple weeks ago after i got home and was just opening the gate, at an almost standstill. i didn't think much of it.
today i was riding back home and diverted onto the grass to avoid an old lady on the sidewalk. it dumped me just as i was heading back onto the sidewalk. i thought i must have hit a hole in the grass and then kept going.. about 10 seconds later, while rocking the sidewalk, it threw me off without warning. i was able to ninja roll both times, and only lost a bit of skin from my palms and some minor bruises. phone read error 16, and i bet that's what caused the first fall, not a hole.
i rode super slow all the way home like a noob. no more cutouts occurred.
so what the fuck? i'm gonna rip it open again. if i can't find anything wrong with it, i might just rip out the ffm chip and then roll the dice a little bit more again, maybe on dirt rather than pavement.
what other faulty things should i be looking for? maybe some crapped out capacitors on the bms or something?
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@swinefeaster I didn't read all of the thread, in skimming through though... From what I've heard, the earlier versions of the JWFFM are... problematic, to put it nicely. Although this tends to be from more of the different versions, and different fw variations out there. Which is why it seems hit or miss for some people, as the combination of hw and fw of the chip to the board it's used in. This could be your issue... but then again, I don't really have a high level of trust/faith in it.
For some of the boards I flipped, and people were wanting it, I steered them away, or said I wouldn't do it, and if they wanted to pay extra for it. I wouldn't "warranty" it.
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@swinefeaster I second removing the chip since you've proven the likely intermittent culprits so far. I have no experience with the JW or Owie chips so cannot say if they are at fault though so having to assume.
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@lia @Swinefeaster OWIE depending on which fork you use offers more compatibility, although there've been some reports of it not working right. I'd say that there are less issues than with the JWFFM chip though, although requires a few extra steps like compiling and flashing the chip.
But for this "hassle" you get a lot more functionality that isn't available either in app (OW FM, OWCE-which you really wouldn't need to use). You're mostly using the chip's web portal to update/configure it. But one of the things you do get is the ability to lock your board and it otherwise responds like a bricked board throwing an Error 16 and won't boot.
I'd recommend using OWIE over JWFFM, and had it been available when I was board flipping, it's what I would have recommended/used.
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@samuraipunch No compiling needed, copy and paste the 1.3.0 firmware bin in the esp8266 flash tool.
bin-https://github.com/lolwheel/Owie/releases/tag/v1.3.0
tool-https://www.espressif.com/en/support/download/other-tools?keys=&field_type_tid[]=14 -
@lemur Oh wow, that's new... I knew originally that you had to build/compile it to flash it... Maybe something changed with the licensing/github to allow it to be ready to flash, or they decided to just ship it ready to flash. Haven't really been paying attention to OWIE since i left the OW discord.
"... We've been trying to reach you about abandoning the OW as a platform, and convert to EUCs."
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@samuraipunch I guess what I care about is error 16. Can I trust owie to not randomly throw me onto my face on the concrete?
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@swinefeaster I'd say yes, it's the better and less expensive option... But that's assuming you really don't have harness damage... If you do it doesn't really matter which option you go with.
Although if it's straight dropping you and the board is off when it does, it'd suggest that the error 16 is really a stop-gap in saying something else is going wrong, like your BMS could be dying. As OWIE and FFM are piggy backs and modifying the signal to the controller, and with them the signal is manipulated enough to trigger the error, where sans chip the signal is still on the "ok" side. Not saying that your BMS is dying, but that the chips are manipulating the signal, so there could be some component overall that's failing or resulting in an out of spec signal/value when processed resulting in the error 16.
It's one of the reasons why you may hear of "i left board charging for a really long time and now it's dead" stories. Board charging = board on... so it's non riding electrical component wear time.
"... We've been trying to reach you about abandoning the OW as a platform, and convert to EUCs."
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@samuraipunch said in XR Error 16 (repaired):
Not saying that your BMS is dying
im not qualified but i am opinionated, n i think this is a sound conclusion. power is failing randomly n the bms provides it, correct? neither owie, nor ffm could solve that particular issue, which also describes his problem to a tee: intermittent power loss.
XR's got what plants crave!
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@notsure Very possible, I could be wrong on this, where you could "zombie" an XR to work without a BMS, but if it was doable it was on 4208 or earlier... but one of the things we may be overlooking is that it's also a more recent board that needs a chip... Who's to say that maybe it's an issue of chip installation, and a wire/solder joint to the chip and plug isn't bad... And that during riding vibrations are enough to cause an interruption at the chip.
Although I've always been of the mindset of "battery mod = no use app, and no updating app"... Which is why the app i have installed on my phone is for a pre-group ride and pre-achievement version... Who's to say what "bug fixes" are being released to combat battery mods via the app. Even though it's not a "firmware", board behavior can be adjusted and influenced by the app. So with the app open, it's very possible that some data is being sent to the app from the board, and the app interprets something in that data stream as a behavior FM doesn't approve of, and tells the board it's time to throw an error; resulting in yeeting the rider.
"... We've been trying to reach you about abandoning the OW as a platform, and convert to EUCs."
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@samuraipunch said in XR Error 16 (repaired):
So with the app open, it's very possible that some data is being sent to the app from the board, and the app interprets something in that data stream as a behavior FM doesn't approve of, and tells the board it's time to throw an error; resulting in yeeting the rider.
their management may lack scruples, but theyre not the mob lol. an application layer diagnostic that communicates with the firmware without the user being aware n resulting in injury would be a huge liability. huge! their lawyers would quit.
XR's got what plants crave!
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@notsure .... right... like QC and GT are synonomous... I can't even type that in the same phrase without dying of laughter! :D
